jimspeiser: I am from Phoenix. Oh, please don't mind the photo.
arkanedaemon7: its alright
arkanedaemon7: :))
arkanedaemon7: that's in arizona right?
arkanedaemon7: Have you ever seen the movie "The God Who Wasn't There"
jimspeiser:
arkanedaemon7: nice
arkanedaemon7: ok ... did it even make it to the theaters there?
jimspeiser: OK, Brian Fleming, 2005....um...
arkanedaemon7: because I am sooooo intrigued about the movie
jimspeiser: Looks like a documentary.
jimspeiser: Starring Richard Dawkins, no less!
arkanedaemon7: oh yeah!!
arkanedaemon7: it will never make it to this part of the world though...
arkanedaemon7: being an atheist in the philippines is really tough!
jimspeiser: Looks like it was just released in NYC a couple of months ago.
jimspeiser: Gets a VERY high rating on the IMDB, 8.5
arkanedaemon7: nice
jimspeiser: Do you not get "skeptical" movies in the Phillipines?
arkanedaemon7: no we don't!
jimspeiser: Is it official censorship, or there's so few atheists there?
arkanedaemon7: they are censored without questions asked
arkanedaemon7: we have an atheist group the site is http://www.philippineatheists.org
arkanedaemon7: we are just a few bunch because most atheist pinoys are afraid to come out of the open
arkanedaemon7: I was almost disowned by my mother when I revealed my beliefs to her
jimspeiser: "pinoys"? Forgive me, I am a typical stupid American who knows very little about your country.
arkanedaemon7: pinoys are slang for Filipinos
arkanedaemon7: hehehehe
jimspeiser: OK, I thought so.
jimspeiser: Roman Catholic is the dominant religion there, yes?
arkanedaemon7: Yes
arkanedaemon7: and even if they said otherwise, they have great political influence
jimspeiser: As they do worldwide.
jimspeiser: But is it very fundamentalist? Do most people believe in Adam & Eve, for instance?
arkanedaemon7: yes
arkanedaemon7: most cathylick schools here still does not approve to teach evolution
arkanedaemon7: only some parts of it
jimspeiser: "only some parts of it" - like that's possible.
jimspeiser: Like being "sort of pregnant."
arkanedaemon7: :))
jimspeiser: Is there a fight between your science teachers and your clerics, as there is here?
arkanedaemon7: no
jimspeiser: So they still teach real science in public schools? (You do have public schools?_
arkanedaemon7: in public schools they teach some science
arkanedaemon7: some kind of science where God Exists
arkanedaemon7: hmmm....
jimspeiser: In this country, there is a huge battle coming between religion and secular forces.
arkanedaemon7: I really hope we are bold enough to try that...
jimspeiser: The one thing we have going for us is the wall between church and state. Do you have any such protection in your laws?
arkanedaemon7: like the one that Marci Hamilton discussed in her book?
jimspeiser: Sorry, I don't know that one.
arkanedaemon7: the book God vs. the Gavel
arkanedaemon7: yeah we have such walls because the constitution is "bible-based"
arkanedaemon7: or should I say "bible-biased"...
jimspeiser: So your constitution mentions God and/or the Bible?
arkanedaemon7: yeah in the preable you can see this phrase "aided my the divine providence"
arkanedaemon7: we even have bishops represented in the creation of the constitution of 1987
jimspeiser: OK. Well, that sounds more like the Generic Deist God, like in our Declaration of Independence.
jimspeiser: "Nature, and Nature's God"
jimspeiser: Are you in College there?
arkanedaemon7: I finished some college
jimspeiser: Do you have a secular humanist movement there?
arkanedaemon7: i don't think we have it here
jimspeiser: Are you familiar with the term?
arkanedaemon7: yeah
arkanedaemon7: of course
jimspeiser: OK. Good. I think secular humanism has a greater chance of success than pure atheism, because it has something positive to offer.
arkanedaemon7: well our group is more into positive atheism
jimspeiser: How do they define that?
jimspeiser: :-/
arkanedaemon7: http://www.positiveatheism.org
jimspeiser: OK, "discussing the history of atheism promotes liberty, peace of mind," etc....
arkanedaemon7: yeah...
jimspeiser: Sounds pretty good, but that "A" word scares people off.
arkanedaemon7: most specially here where people thinks of Atheists as demon-worshippers
arkanedaemon7: :))
arkanedaemon7: how naive
jimspeiser: Exactly. But when it comes to movements, perception is everything.
arkanedaemon7: how is that?
jimspeiser: You can laugh at the fact that they think of you as demon-worshippers, but how do you overcome that? How many people are "closet" atheists who might join you group, but don't want to be seen as social outcasts?
jimspeiser: That is why I like to call myself a "secular humanist." It says that I am doing something positive, without retreating into religion.
jimspeiser: And it doesn't have the negative connotation of atheist.
arkanedaemon7: as for me, I just say to myself that they are just brainwashed and they do not know the real thing. Our group simply tells people what atheism really is and being branded as demon-worshipper does not affect me because i do not believe in demons too
arkanedaemon7: some friends really think its "cool" that way...
arkanedaemon7: :)
jimspeiser: There are two kinds of atheist groups in this country...
jimspeiser: The first kind is sort of a "safe haven" for atheists to just sit around and grumble about religion, but they are resigned to being "second-class citizens" forever....
arkanedaemon7: :)
jimspeiser: The second kind is more activist, and beleives that the atheist position should be put forth more publicly, and the public should be educated on religious issues.
arkanedaemon7: we only have the first kind
jimspeiser: That's what I'm getting at.
jimspeiser: I think if you started a secular humanist movement, it might be more successful. (Not that it's real successful in this country, but I think its a better "blueprint" for success.)
arkanedaemon7: ok...
jimspeiser: Here's a link to check out... http://humaniststudies.org/index.html
arkanedaemon7: ok ... i will take your suggestions in the highest priority
jimspeiser: Thank you! I think you will see that Atheism tells people what you don't believe, whereas secular humanism tells people what you DO believe.
arkanedaemon7: can i save this conversation so that I can talk about this to the guys...
jimspeiser: Absolutely.
arkanedaemon7: :)
jimspeiser: Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with "Positive Atheism," in fact, that's really what secular humanism is, it's just that "A" word. In this country, an atheist ranks just above a child-molester.
arkanedaemon7: ok
jimspeiser: Hope I've been of help/
arkanedaemon7: yeah you've been a lot of help
arkanedaemon7: I should be the one thanking you :)
jimspeiser: No problem. Glad to have the opportunity.
